Narwhals and Tunas and Hatchetfish Oh My!

[Sawslig Steve. And William.]

These three fellas I never see used. Nobody uses NMR either, but there's a pretty clear reason for that.

Are they useless or just under used?

Actually fondling about this leads me to wonder if we may be missing out on a pretty important potential playstyle in Tel. I never use things like narwhals or hammerheads, for instance, because everything I do with them seems to be level 4. But the thing is, since level 5 costs so much and takes so long, having a predominantly L4 army might be a pretty strong tactic. I mean, Lester used to do it a bunch, but it always seemed like more of a novelty than anything else.

GUESS I WILL INVESTIGOOT.

[Sawslig Steve. And William.]

Also, I have no practical reason for suggesting this, but what if we introduced prerequisites for levels? Like no L5 until you've got the structures upgrade, or something. Just fondling it'll help extend the lifespan of L4.

[Sawslig Steve. And William.]

I tend to have most Clinic research done before 5 anyway.

~Steve

[Dom]

With regards to the narwhal the reason you don't see it much is because the Mooselob is the dominant unit, we're back to Mooselobs and Babales since they're pretty fun to use. Not sure if this is because they're the strongest units or because people are to lazy to try something new. If we can get more new players I'm sure you'll see some more experimenting with the new units.

The other units I haven't played around with yet but I imagine you'll see them be put to good use on water armies.

Sept 7, 2013 7:15:29 GMT Sawslig Steve. And William. said:

Also, I have no practical reason for suggesting this, but what if we introduced prerequisites for levels? Like no L5 until you've got the structures upgrade, or something. Just fondling it'll help extend the lifespan of L4.

This sounds like a good idea but to be honest I can see it being daunting and causing controversy. It's more stuff to remember, more stuff to learn for new people and slows down the game even more.

I know Level 4 has always been perceived as a problem but forcing people to play it isn't the way to go about it, you see battles with level 2, 3 and 4 units all the time and I don't think it's that much of an issue to be honest. Part of the fun with designing an army is making your units last all game even at low levels, for instance the faggotflyer is a useful raiding unit all game long, walking stick/giraffe is invisible and has a HUGE sight radius so it makes a good scout, horse/rattlers are a good unit for raiding and can even help with level 5 units while you're teching, camel/archerfish is never not useful and camel/garden spider is useful from the moment you get level 3.

Personally I'd remove all prerequisites from research lab except make SB upgrade level 4 min and just make everything else crazy good like you did with Henchman Binoculars, better to have a bunch of really good choices than be forced to research something you may not want/want later to get to what you really want.

For starters I'd do something like make all Henchman upgrades give +25 hp each so you have super Henchmen once all is said and done, this will probably make people experiment with heal and tag more since atm I think they're not used mostly out of laziness than the fact that they're not useful (Heal is very useful, Tag can be useful for scouting/with bombard beetles).

[Sawslig Steve. And William.]

back to Mooselobs and Babales since they're pretty fun to use

How are they possibly fun to use they don't even do anything xd. They've also been used to the point of being super boring; I don't get it, why do you fellows get so set in your ways when the entire point of IC is variety?

forcing people to play it isn't the way to go about it

Agree.

SB upgrade level 4 min

Nope nope nope spam fliers.

[Blother Had Me Like]

On the case of mooselobs and babales I don't think they are really the norm again. Well, babales are really just hard replace because they are kind of niche. How many other really strong sonic units can you make at level 5?

That brings up another point. I wouldn't worry too much about the variety of creatures at level 5. These units need to be the strongest they can be. Versatility is useful in the earlier research levels and provides for interesting strategies. Level 5 is all about having the strongest units, and you are simply at a disadvantage if you aren't using the best. There are some other strategies people can use, but there is, or will be, a best creature for each one. This is just the nature of the game.

Although there are a good bit of alternatives to mooselobs, they can still be considered niche. How many choices do you have for level 5 water creatures with barrier destroy and can still fight the other meaty level 5s (because horns)?

Oh I guess I can talk about the animals in the thread. I actually like tuna because of how common herding is and having a water option. Tuna is good we just haven't been playing on a lot of water maps. The only issue I sometimes see with the tuna is that it is too strong. Basically, I am trying to make a meaty level 3, but its high defense and health boosts it up to 4. Also, it won't see any play at 5 because whales. I'll keep looking at lower level possibilities, and there is one unit I actually use consistently with tuna.

Narwhal isn't bad. I have mainly seen it on fliers, and it could probably used at level 4. Only thing with level 4 is how niche it is to utility, fliers and the occasional pseudo level 5. It also isn't useful for level 3 because the head, the only important part, will always make it 4 I believe. Level 5 versions are weak just because whales. The whales make better horns combinations then a narwhal can with like the elephant.

Hatchetfish is only really there for its hovering. The issue though is that using almost any of those small fishes' bodies is that you lose a lot in health/defense (I'm talking about the ability type fish like piranha, archer, eel, etc.) Think about when a unit with hovering is useful? Basically to cross water if it can't swim, or to cross over obstacles, like fencing. The water aspect of a hatchetfish kind of already solves those problems and is weaker compared to other water animals, and has lower defense compared to the other hovering units. Also, hovering is a pretty low-used ability in general (only like tiger/hercules beetles and behemoths at 5). The only time I see this animal getting use is with some more water dominant maps (which we could use consider OCEAN Tellurian) and maybe water fencing coming back.

[Sawslig Steve. And William.]

more water dominant maps (which we could use consider OCEAN Tellurian)

Goddamnit I did that xd.

Most of the OT maps are designed to be as watery as possible without people bitchin'.

Par example, Sandstorm, Rift, High Tide etc. only have water access, and Meltdown is mostly water. Floe has those channels you can swim up. People alternate between complaining that they have too much water and that they have too much land ;-;.

[Blother Had Me Like]

There are a few issues with some of those maps (or my problems/things I have heard).

I think sandstorm and meltdown are too big and are ones that no one ever plays on unless like against comps or something.

I like rift, but there is a lot of open space in it, so the gameplay is slow and almost primarily a rush for 5.

High tide is good, but you don't really need water for the map. Even though water is useful there won't be much fighting in the actual water.

Floe you don't need water at all. The only time water is used would be to get from the side parts to the mainland, which is not important. Also, floe is pretty big as well, and the games generally last pretty long (I do really like the map though just not water based).

Tightrope (unrelated) is a really cool concept, but is way to big and just a lot of filler space that could be reduced.

For the bigger maps that no one plays it might be a good idea to some how condense them. The maps also need to be team-oriented because that is a common desire people have (because those kind of maps are new, fun and add another layer of strategy). Crag has gotten some popularity because of (what I think are reasons) the tight space, close-quarters bases, multiple creatures uses, and team gameplay. I have some ideas for maps that could be made, and I might even try to make one some time.

I suggest that, before a map is made, we should post a rough sketch of the map, through paint or some kind of picture, to see if it would be something people like to play. As much as I love beautiful and unique maps, new maps are kind of a waste if they aren't functional with how people want to play. I might make a map thread where people can post ideas.

[Sawslig Steve. And William.]

[on high tide] you don't really need water for the map.

What? There is no land access. Xd.

Even though water is useful there won't be much fighting in the actual water

There are only very few maps dedicated to promoting fighting in the actual water because you can't typically put that much open water in a map because people complain about all the open, "wasted" space and the lack of land access.

People want smaller maps, but with the same amount of resources, and you can't put resources underwater (actually you can, but just no).

[Sawslig Steve. And William.]

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